<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Viola and Barna, Chapter 2 &#8211; The Red Flags</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/</link>
	<description>A place for rambling about all things liturgical and musical...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:07:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-343</guid>
		<description>The sequel to “Pagan Christianity?” is out now. It’s called “Reimagining Church”. It picks up where “Pagan Christianity” left off and continues the conversation. (“Pagan Christianity” was never meant to be a stand alone book; it’s part one of the conversation.) “Reimagining Church” is endorsed by Leonard Sweet, Shane Claiborne, Alan Hirsch, and many others. You can read a sample chapter at   
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org&lt;/A&gt; .
It’s also available on Amazon.com. Frank is also blogging now at &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.frankviola.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.frankviola.wordpress.com&lt;/A&gt; .

Also, for a look at the purpose and vision behind these books, check out Viola&#039;s brand new book, &quot;From Eternity to Here&quot; at &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.frometernitytohere.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.frometernitytohere.org&lt;/A&gt; .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sequel to “Pagan Christianity?” is out now. It’s called “Reimagining Church”. It picks up where “Pagan Christianity” left off and continues the conversation. (“Pagan Christianity” was never meant to be a stand alone book; it’s part one of the conversation.) “Reimagining Church” is endorsed by Leonard Sweet, Shane Claiborne, Alan Hirsch, and many others. You can read a sample chapter at<br />
<a HREF="http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org " rel="nofollow">http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org</a> .<br />
It’s also available on Amazon.com. Frank is also blogging now at <a HREF="http://www.frankviola.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.frankviola.wordpress.com</a> .</p>
<p>Also, for a look at the purpose and vision behind these books, check out Viola&#8217;s brand new book, &#8220;From Eternity to Here&#8221; at <a HREF="http://www.frometernitytohere.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.frometernitytohere.org</a> .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blendedworship</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>blendedworship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-197</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good question.  I know that, when we met at Holy Trinity, on the grounds of University of Chicago Seminary, right upstairs from the University Bookstore, we were public; when we met as a whole church for picnics and prayer meetings on the lawn of Promontory Point right off Lake Michigan, we were meeting in public.

Admittedly, when we were meeting with Church of the Good Shepherd in our little church building in Davidson, NC, it was less so.  You have to take each one on a case-by-case basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good question.  I know that, when we met at Holy Trinity, on the grounds of University of Chicago Seminary, right upstairs from the University Bookstore, we were public; when we met as a whole church for picnics and prayer meetings on the lawn of Promontory Point right off Lake Michigan, we were meeting in public.</p>
<p>Admittedly, when we were meeting with Church of the Good Shepherd in our little church building in Davidson, NC, it was less so.  You have to take each one on a case-by-case basis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bald Man</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Bald Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-196</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t mean to imply a definitive answer to my previous questions. They were just questions that came to mind... like this one.

&lt;blockquote&gt;in what way does it benefit the Church to NOT meet together in public?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Can we really call what most churches do in their buildings a public meeting? Are they significantly more public than what occurs in a home (larger, yes; but more public?) Are they public in the same vein as gathering in the temple courts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply a definitive answer to my previous questions. They were just questions that came to mind&#8230; like this one.</p>
<blockquote><p>in what way does it benefit the Church to NOT meet together in public?</p></blockquote>
<p>Can we really call what most churches do in their buildings a public meeting? Are they significantly more public than what occurs in a home (larger, yes; but more public?) Are they public in the same vein as gathering in the temple courts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blendedworship</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>blendedworship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-193</guid>
		<description>And, Paul!  Hi!

&quot;Looking around at other Church’s here in the UK, it would appear that even the most successful with small groups and house-groups, still meet together corporately once a week; admittedly in rented space.&quot;

To my mind, that sounds like a healthy, well-balanced life for a church to have: Acts 2:46 calls it &quot;temple and home&quot; and (so Alan my priest in NC told me) John Stott (great British theologian!) calls it the balance between &quot;formal and informal&quot; meeting of the Church.

That reminds me: I promised one more post on this chapter... maybe tonight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, Paul!  Hi!</p>
<p>&#8220;Looking around at other Church’s here in the UK, it would appear that even the most successful with small groups and house-groups, still meet together corporately once a week; admittedly in rented space.&#8221;</p>
<p>To my mind, that sounds like a healthy, well-balanced life for a church to have: Acts 2:46 calls it &#8220;temple and home&#8221; and (so Alan my priest in NC told me) John Stott (great British theologian!) calls it the balance between &#8220;formal and informal&#8221; meeting of the Church.</p>
<p>That reminds me: I promised one more post on this chapter&#8230; maybe tonight!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blendedworship</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>blendedworship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Now... I need to finish my point: 1 Cor. 14:26 is extremely important as an example to follow, but then so is Acts 2:46.  They have equal weight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now&#8230; I need to finish my point: 1 Cor. 14:26 is extremely important as an example to follow, but then so is Acts 2:46.  They have equal weight!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blendedworship</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>blendedworship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-191</guid>
		<description>Tell me this: in what way does it benefit the Church to NOT meet together in public?  Notice we are not debating the merits of buying church property - I think we both agree on that front.  But just because it&#039;s not mentioned beyond Acts 2:46, doesn&#039;t mean a) it wasn&#039;t replicated or b) isn&#039;t beneficial.  Notice, the ONLY verse Viola uses re: &quot;every-member ministry&quot; is 1 Cor. 14:26.  If it&#039;s so important, why isn&#039;t it referenced in every epistle?  Cory!  This is more tense (and fun) than a 14-14-14 tie of Settlers of Catan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell me this: in what way does it benefit the Church to NOT meet together in public?  Notice we are not debating the merits of buying church property &#8211; I think we both agree on that front.  But just because it&#8217;s not mentioned beyond Acts 2:46, doesn&#8217;t mean a) it wasn&#8217;t replicated or b) isn&#8217;t beneficial.  Notice, the ONLY verse Viola uses re: &#8220;every-member ministry&#8221; is 1 Cor. 14:26.  If it&#8217;s so important, why isn&#8217;t it referenced in every epistle?  Cory!  This is more tense (and fun) than a 14-14-14 tie of Settlers of Catan!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ...paul</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>...paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really torn in my views on this, Tom. But I haven&#039;t read the book, so can&#039;t comment on that. 

I can understand that organised religion and big church buildings might not be the best model we have, but I like it nonetheless. Some of our services are quite small and intimate too, and I like them as well.

We&#039;ve been trying to do more with house-groups over recent years, but there hasn&#039;t been a great deal of take-up with them. And part of the problem there is, I&#039;m sure, that the older model is so ingrained into our psyche. 

Looking around at other Church&#039;s here in the UK, it would appear that even the most successful with small groups and house-groups, still meet together corporately once a week; admittedly in rented space.

Our building does take a lot to keep it in good repair. Parts of it are more than 800 years old, so no surprise there. That can be a problem for the mission and focus of the Church -- seemingly so much geared towards finance. But I wouldn&#039;t want to see it fall into disrepair. And there&#039;s something very special about praying and worshipping in the same place that that&#039;s been happening for eight centuries.

As I said, really torn on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really torn in my views on this, Tom. But I haven&#8217;t read the book, so can&#8217;t comment on that. </p>
<p>I can understand that organised religion and big church buildings might not be the best model we have, but I like it nonetheless. Some of our services are quite small and intimate too, and I like them as well.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been trying to do more with house-groups over recent years, but there hasn&#8217;t been a great deal of take-up with them. And part of the problem there is, I&#8217;m sure, that the older model is so ingrained into our psyche. </p>
<p>Looking around at other Church&#8217;s here in the UK, it would appear that even the most successful with small groups and house-groups, still meet together corporately once a week; admittedly in rented space.</p>
<p>Our building does take a lot to keep it in good repair. Parts of it are more than 800 years old, so no surprise there. That can be a problem for the mission and focus of the Church &#8212; seemingly so much geared towards finance. But I wouldn&#8217;t want to see it fall into disrepair. And there&#8217;s something very special about praying and worshipping in the same place that that&#8217;s been happening for eight centuries.</p>
<p>As I said, really torn on this one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bald Man</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Bald Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-189</guid>
		<description>@Acts 2:46 - Is this replicated beyond Jerusalem among the Gentile/mixed churches? (Not that I recall; Paul frequently inaugurates his ministry in the synagogues, but the churches gatherings are quickly moved to homes, even in those rare towns where the Jews are receptive.) Does the practice continue beyond the first days, once the church is scattered and once the church distinguishes itself from Judaism? What did they do when gathered in the temple courts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Acts 2:46 &#8211; Is this replicated beyond Jerusalem among the Gentile/mixed churches? (Not that I recall; Paul frequently inaugurates his ministry in the synagogues, but the churches gatherings are quickly moved to homes, even in those rare towns where the Jews are receptive.) Does the practice continue beyond the first days, once the church is scattered and once the church distinguishes itself from Judaism? What did they do when gathered in the temple courts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blendedworship</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>blendedworship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 00:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-187</guid>
		<description>I am so glad you and I are commenting back and forth again!

I think calling the NT practices normative for all the rest of Christian history leaves out two things: The Church is a Body, and as Bodies grow, they change and develop, or die; and, the Holy Spirit and His leading and inspiration seem not to be factored in by them at all.

And for every time they quote 1 Cor. 14:26 (which I often quote, myself, especially for Bring Your Own Worship moments at Community Group), I can come back with Acts 2:46; they ignore that &quot;prescriptive&quot; point - the REGULAR meeting together in a large, open, public and formal setting.

This is so fun!  Let&#039;s keep sometimes agreeing on stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad you and I are commenting back and forth again!</p>
<p>I think calling the NT practices normative for all the rest of Christian history leaves out two things: The Church is a Body, and as Bodies grow, they change and develop, or die; and, the Holy Spirit and His leading and inspiration seem not to be factored in by them at all.</p>
<p>And for every time they quote 1 Cor. 14:26 (which I often quote, myself, especially for Bring Your Own Worship moments at Community Group), I can come back with Acts 2:46; they ignore that &#8220;prescriptive&#8221; point &#8211; the REGULAR meeting together in a large, open, public and formal setting.</p>
<p>This is so fun!  Let&#8217;s keep sometimes agreeing on stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bald Man</title>
		<link>http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/viola-and-barna-chapter-2-the-red-flags/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Bald Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blendedworship.wordpress.com/?p=100#comment-186</guid>
		<description>I saw yesterday&#039;s points and don&#039;t disagree with your agreeing.  I can&#039;t comment on the book, because I haven&#039;t read the revised version. (I read the original a year or two ago.)

Interestingly I have a copy of the sequel, Reimagining Church, sitting on the counter next to me.

I think it boils down to this: Are the NT practices prescriptive or descriptive. Viola ( and presumably Barna) clearly think they are prescriptive, and I would agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw yesterday&#8217;s points and don&#8217;t disagree with your agreeing.  I can&#8217;t comment on the book, because I haven&#8217;t read the revised version. (I read the original a year or two ago.)</p>
<p>Interestingly I have a copy of the sequel, Reimagining Church, sitting on the counter next to me.</p>
<p>I think it boils down to this: Are the NT practices prescriptive or descriptive. Viola ( and presumably Barna) clearly think they are prescriptive, and I would agree.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
